The transcript has been edited and condensed for clarity.

How long has it been since you defected from North Korea?
I defected in 2009.

Could you tell me about your journey of defection?
I lived in North Pyongan Province. I crossed the Yalu River and defected to South Korea.

What is the Yalu River like?
It is a river that flows between North Korea and China. The current is rough, so it is not possible to swim across, but we took a boat and rowed across to defect. Border guards are stationed there, and if they catch you, they will shoot you. We risked our lives to escape. The moments of fear and tension are still vivid in my memory. The escape group that followed us that day was caught by the border guards and all of them were executed.

North Korea across the Yalu River in the spring. (Photo from Wikipedia)

It was terrifying, chilling, and heartbreaking. The Korean Peninsula is unique, so after going through three countries, we have to go through a strict process to be accepted as defectors in the third country. I chose China, Laos, and Thailand as the three countries, and in Thailand, the third country, I applied for defection to South Korea from the refugee camp (like a prison) and was able to go to South Korea. Here in Thailand, we can choose either South Korea or the United States as the country to settle in, as they grant immigration status to North Korean defectors. I applied for immigration to South Korea, so I was able to come to the country of South Korea.

A map of China, Laos, and Thailand. (Photo from Google Earth)

What motivated you to choose South Korea?
I thought we were of the same ethnicity because we share the same language. Also, at the time when I defected, I had a baby who was only a month old, so I had to choose South Korea because the visa process was faster. At that time, it took one or two years to receive a U.S. visa, and I could only take a flight to the United States with that visa. The conditions in the immigration detention center in Thailand were not suitable for a baby who was only a month old. I settled in South Korea for 10 years and then immigrated to the United States for another 4 years, and now I feel like I am wandering aimlessly.

An immigration detention center in Thailand. (Photo by Édouard Hue)

What was your motivation for immigrating to the United States again?
The South Korean government says that we are one ethnic group, but in reality, defectors like us are lonely and alienated in social life, and there were people who were afraid of us. We were strangers in South Korea. South Koreans couldn't understand North Korean defectors, and we found it difficult to adapt to the unfamiliar and challenging life structure in South Korea. The capitalist system was difficult, and it was hard to handle the freedom we longed for. Even though we used the same language, we were already people from different countries who didn't understand each other. I grew up in North Korea, which felt like a narrow and confined place, and I didn't learn anything except worshiping Kim Il-sung and Kim Jong-il. In North Korea, we studied from 9 am to 12 pm, and after that, from the age of 7, we had to work in factories in three shifts. The factories operated 24 hours a day, and everyone had to gather and do all the work with their hands, like ants. Most of the factories were for producing military supplies (weapons, guns, knives) for war preparation, and factories for producing nuclear weapons. The remaining 30% produced essential goods (clothes, food, corn) for the people, which were distributed to the citizens. We lived by receiving a batch of dry corn kernels, about 200g per person per day, every 15 days.

North Korean propaganda. (Photo by Mark Fahey)

Have you witnessed people dying in North Korea?
Yes, of course. One day, my neighbor starved to death and died. When I was in elementary school, although I was too young to see, starting from middle school, they gathered all the students to watch public executions of prisoners. It was a politics of terror. They would say, "If you don't listen to us, this is how you will die," and about ten soldiers would start shooting at the prisoners in front of the people. Those days were terrifying, and I would be scared for several days, making it difficult to go outside or sleep. The image of the pale face of a prisoner, who was dragged out wearing white rubber shoes, still haunts me. It's scary. I still see it in my nightmares.

If you could go back to that time, would you choose to defect again?
After seeing this better world, how can I live in North Korea? I would definitely defect again. But this time, I would hold the hand of my first daughter, who was left behind in North Korea. It hurts so much to think of the child I left behind in North Korea. Because we didn't have an umbrella to use on rainy days, I had to put a black plastic bag on my head to send her off. I had to send her to school with a plastic bag on her head because she felt embarrassed. When I arrived in South Korea, I realized there were beautiful shoes and umbrellas. Even now, when it rains, I remember my daughter who used to refuse to go to school and cry, wearing a bag on her head. I want to give her floral-patterned umbrella and shoes. I worked so hard to not become an embarrassment to my daughter.

Poverty and famine in North Korea. (Photo by Kristian Lund Kofoed)

How is the child you brought with you when you defected? Is she adapting well and satisfied with life here?
Currently, the biggest concern is that she doesn't have citizenship or permanent residency. My child helps me with my studies, just like ANKR does for students, and it
is a great help. Actually, it wasn't easy to receive tutoring like this even in the United States because living here is not easy. ANKR has been helping me with my schedule
for years, and I am very grateful. My child also has difficulty making friends and spends a lot of time alone,
so she feels lonely. I wish she had a friend, an older
sister or a brother to be with, to talk to, and to watch movies together.